Racism in Las Vegas

Nice little racist incident ;). But i would like to think that the said guy was representing his own sorry ass than the entire country of America or even the white people. And your own experience seems to imply just that. Anyway there are malcontents in any society. We have to take the good with the bad.

No, from my experience in America, UK and France, I am not trying to state that racism does not exist there, what I mean is that it does not occur on everyday basis, it surely doesn’t apply to the entire population and most of it just a figment of people’s imagination (thanks to the hyped-up articles created by the media).

Racism doesn’t always have to occur with lightning and sound as you witnessed in Las Vegas. It does happen everyday, albeit in subtle ways. The cabbie thought you were Muslim, just imagine how many people must have thought that same exact thought as you passed them speaking in Hindi? The fact that you were short of change is what set off the cabbie. Had there been an opportunity for other folks, you would probably see similar incidents.

Once again, racism is neither a figment of one’s imagination nor hype. It is all around you, in various levels of intensity. It exists when someone says, “you speak good English.” American born Indians get the usual, “I know you were born here but where exactly are you from?” people from Europe are never asked. Just the other day, some guy was questioned because he was speaking in Tamil in an airport.

One last thing about being Indian: people may also be nice because of exoticism; exoticism does not mean someone necessarily likes you, it just means they like the fact that you could be exotic. However, let me also suggest that it is not a blanket statement, there do exist a genuine cases where people are nice but it only happens over time, knowledge and interaction with Indains or the person in question.

Finally, it is ironic and startling for too may desis (don’t mean you) who are so used to stereotyping all SOuth Indian people as Madrasis, all Gujus as cheap or all Marathi speaking people as country bumpkins When they find similar treatment meted out to them in the US and elsewhere. Although this doesn’t exactly qualify as racism, the undercurrent and subtext is the same.

Hi,
As racism exists in every society, so do nice people. I live in NYC and find all kinds of people. I am sure you will find very nice people in Vegas too just as you had a good experience in NYC. Even in the subcontinent some people are racists. The best thing to do is not to decide before hand about any county, city, religion or race.

The driver might have assumed by the colour of your skin that you were Muslim.

Dekho kya musibat hai.. because of Muslims, we are targeted. I am reminded of the incidents when WTC attacks happened. Some of us and Sikhs were mistaken to be muslims and killed. Somehow I dont bother much about muslims, after all that we have gone through. Note that there are more Indian muslims amongst the mumbai blasts accused. So much for Indian muslims being secular and non-jehadi. That too, considering the fact that they have much more rights than us, forget the liberal dolefuls of money given to them in the name of “minority upliftment” (am talking about govt schemes to give loans to muslims at interest rates equal to pittance) and haj subsidy.

I dont think that the taxi driver would have been so rude if he knew you were not muslim, dont you think so?
And Sakshi, you are quite right. You did not face much racism because you were all women. Its much more difficult in case of men. Now I am not making blanket statements, but men sure do face more racism. Well, as far as a shippie friend told me, France and UK are much more racist than US (though, WTC might be changing things). He has been to these places very often.

I just wanted to add something, In Los Angeles its a well know fact people avoid dealing with Persians and Lebanses ( Muslim) car mechanics becuase they feel they overcharge them or cheat the customer by saying that they repaired something that need not be repaired. I wonder if people have the same thoughts about Muslims in Las Vegas . The taxi driver might have assumed you were Muslisms trying to pull a fast one on him. I agree the drivers behavior was totally uncalled for.

@Shadows: “because of Muslims, we are targeted.”
So the english have colonized India because of the muslims? Sorry but imho the US and english have always been against India. And they have also enslaved africans for centuries. Nowadays as racism has become politically incorrect they say “oh you like a muslim”, but its nothing else but an excuse for racism. There is 100 reasons to discriminate people. Most people who are against islam dont even now that mulims read the quran etc. Sorry the english have a history of imperialism, this started by invading the american continent. Its not something that has just begun but its going on for centuries already. And always has been the excue: Oh we have to bring these people the christian religion and western civilization, of course no racism. Its just their culture is so inferior we see no other chance as to wipe it out, but of course we respect them all and are no racists. The motto of imperialism has always been “divide et impera” so its pretty obvious bush&friends will say they target india only because of the muslims.

NJUS: I agree with you. The British (and the western world) have always believed in Divide and Rule. Wherver they went they divided the region in small countries and took away their treasures which are now in their museums. Everybody knows that a lot of valuable treasure was taken away from India and is now in their museums. It has nothing to do with muslims or hindus or africans. They talk about the muslims and africans etc, look how they treated the Red Indians, the blacks, and the jews in the previous centuries. The western world in full of blood shed. It’s easy to forget the past because most people do not read or know what happened in the past around the world.

>>> Most people who are against islam dont even now that mulims read the quran etc.

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What do you mean by that Njus ? I dont care whether the muslim reads quran or archies comics. What matters to me is that they stop killing us. And stop killing us citing the reason that we dont read quran instead of bible or gita. And that they stop converting people by the sword or gunpoint, bribe, rape, and forced marriages. For india, muslim colonialism has been much worse than by europeans (I am not downplaying the actions of european imperialists).

BTW, muslims are much more racist and discriminatory than Europeans eg Arab and Turk imperialism. Atleast Europeans realize that racism is politically incorrect, as you said. Muslims dont realize that and most of them look down upon non-muslims. What do you think about that?

I have to agree with shadows, Muslims are more racist then Europeans or Americans. A visit to middle east will show you how Muslim out there treat Indian Hindus and Chrisitans. They treat them like slaves .

I think the fault was clearly yours over here..as you said in your post as well. Before the trip started, you should have told the cabbie that you might get short on money and planned to go to the ATM to get the extra dollar or two if needed. You assumed that it would be ok with him, instead of asking him upfront. That would have enabled the cabbie to make the decision on whether to accept your ride or not. “Just” 50 cents short is meaningless..whether it is 50 cents, or a dollar or few dollars short, it is the same thing - you didn’t pay him what you were supposed to pay, and as a result he got pissed off. His last comment was definitely racist though.

Pretty nice blog, by the way.

Shadows, you said

Dekho kya musibat hai.. because of Muslims, we are targeted. I am reminded of the incidents when WTC attacks happened. Some of us and Sikhs were mistaken to be muslims and killed.

Are you serious or being sarcastic. If its the former, I must say thats a super narrow view of the world. Saying something so stupid, nullifies any and all arguements thereafter.

And I find it surprising that u say that European rule was not “as bad” as the Mughal one in India. I suggest you read both sides of the arguement on the web before you make such statements.

Varun, I dont know where you get the impression that you need to tell the cabbie about the short fare change.

Its a simple human error that u r short of change. That in no way allows you to hurl abuses.

When i heard this incident from “the best friend” my first reaction was….did u call the police or not. How I wish they had. This classic racial profiling. And I for one would have loved to raise a stink and teach the asshole cabbie a lesson or two.

Arzan,
You commented on the first sentence of my piece that you quoted. But what say you about the latter part. The fact that Hindus and Sikhs were killed because they were mistaken to be muslims. Of course, we are secular and so we should not bother about non-muslims dying, right ??

>> If its the former, I must say thats a super narrow view of the world.
Then, what would be a wide view of the world? Trying to jump over each other to prove our secularism. i am not much interested in religion, but i dont want me dying because i dont believe in “their” religion. Does the muslim who kills others really know how diligent are they in following their faith?

Does anyone realize that lessons in secularism and human rights should be preached to the ones who are not (u kno who), rather than constantly preaching us. STrange strange world, really.
Give it a little thought, arzan. No hard feelings.

>>Saying something so stupid, nullifies any and all arguements thereafter.
I wasnt in the mood to argue with anyone when I posted that.
OK, So you think that saying - muslims committed terrorist acts, hindus and sikhs killed because they were mistaken to be muslims - is stupid. Of course, its a fact, however stupid it might be. No WTC, no backlash, no killings - isnt it simple enough.
Rather than preaching us, you should be saying that americans were wrong to kill muslims in the WTC backlash. But then, not everyone believes in gandhi, right?

>> And I find it surprising that u say that European rule was not “as bad” as the Mughal one in India. I suggest you read both sides of the arguement on the web before you make such statements.

Well, we were second class citizens under Europeans, as well as muslims, you are right. I do say that “I am not downplaying the actions of europeans”. Atleast, forced conversions, rape, pillage, loot and plunder were much less frequent under Europeans. Now, you can call me stupid, I dont mind (really, I dont), but dont you think they had a much better sense of secularism and human rights than muslims ??

And to repeat what the hot secular favourite , manmohan singh, said - british rule was beneficial to india in a way. Did they not bring around some technology. Ok, they took a lot from us, but they did give back too.
Do you think we would have been one country if british werent around.
Wasnt the secular gandhi the one who got punjabi and sindhi refugees thrown out of deserted mosques in delhi, out in the cold rain, so that “minority feelings are not hurt”.

I don’t know about you, but I live in Canada, and it has pretty similar “customs” to the US. Service providers like cab drivers, waiters, etc not only expect to get paid what they were supposed to be paid, but expect a tip as well. These folks are working hard for meagre earnings, and I am sure every dollar counts for them. In conclusion, the cab driver was justified in being pissed off, though he was not justified in expressing his outrage with such strong and racist words.

Shadows

You are just saying the same thing in a roundabout way.

One Sikh was killed in the aftermath of the WTC attack. Which Hindu was killed ??
Please substantiate your claims with proof otherwise dont just put hearsay into words.

As abhorable as that is, it does not mean all Americans are bad. The same way, not all Muslims are bad. A million people died during the Partition. Half of them were Muslims. Who killed them ? Hindus. So by your logic of black and white, Hindus are as bad as Muslims. So then if everyone is bad, then who is good ?

And regarding your other points, I wish you would clearly state what you are saying. I have read all your comments thrice but still cannot get to the crux of what you are saying. Can you ?

Arzan, the crux of my argument is - I have no good reason to be secular, nor have I any respect for that shitty gandhi-nehru idealism. Am I clear now? Call me narrowminded or anything. You are narrowminded in your own way.

Ok, lets assume that you sympathise with someone. But that someone comes up and hits you. Will you have the same sympathy for him? Leave aside your preachy secular-progressive moralistic stuff for a while, and think like an average human.

I frankly am least bothered about muslims and whatever they believe in. Nor do I hate them. But surely, I would not like it if they go around killing us just for not calling God as Allah, and for preferring Baywatch over Quran. Also, I am sick and tired of this argument - not all muslims are bad. Ok fine I agree. But then, the so-called seculars dont give the same benefit of doubt to us. But then why are the ratios of bad so high in muslims. Not just India, but all over the world. If you think logically, dont you think that the violence espoused in their religion has a role to play. Ok, just google the word “kafir” (You wanted no hearsay, right? see for yourself).

Paste some of my comments that you read three times and did not understand. I will try to explain myself better.

By the way, you seem to be doing the same thing that you accuse me of doing - putting hearsay into claims, arent you? Read some history and you will come to know the atrocities committed on Indians by muslims.

Shadows

One Sikh was killed in the aftermath of the WTC attack. Which Hindu was killed ??
Please substantiate your claims with proof otherwise dont just put hearsay into words.

Which part of the above sentence (in english….in case you were wondering)did you not understand. Or then did you just choose to ignore it because you realized that you had put your foot in your mouth and shot off a diatribe as most news media outlets do today.

And on what basis do you call me narrow minded. You are the one to goes castigating every single Muslim as someone to be detested.

I know that commenting on the internet is free, but that does not mean you spew out crap ! There are other places to do that, not this one.

Its surprising (or maybe not…coming from you) how you degrade an incident into a stupid Hindu Superior-Muslim Inferior diatribe.

The relevance of the post at hand is lost.

arzan,, whooaaa… cool down man. No need to go personal (which I have desisted till now). Frankly speaking, i did not completely read your last post. Same old thing you said. If you have the habit of reading the newspapers, you would know that some Sikhs and Hindus were killed in NYC. I cannot really get into a discussion on this - whether it was in the papers or not?

LOLzz… What proof do you want. Are you too lazy for a few keypresses. Dont get into that stupid bloggers trap so evident on desi blogosphere - “Whats the proof” - Same old diversionary tactics. Now really, I cannot make you read that there were Indians who actually were mistaken to be arab muslims and killed.

Still, read this - http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020912/world.htm
and this - http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020908/spectrum/main1.htm
and this - http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/002190.html (though I dont read sepia regularly)
This is what you were asking for, werent you? These are first 2 page results of my search, explore further for more info (I wonder why the govt has to come out with press statements asking us to maintain peace on the eve of any terror attack , eg. Mumbai train blasts. Its all the more irritating to be admonished for not being secular enough, when actually you are.)

Anyway, I know where this is heading. You are caught in your delusions of secularism and mohandas gandhi, and feet in the mouth. I am disillusioned with the secularism crap, and unwillingness on so-called secular government’s part to call a spade a spade, and islamic terror as islamic terror.

PS. Maybe you have not opened on those links yet Its actually just that links are posted that satisfies the reader, most of the times the reader does not go through the link.

Though I have a great feeling to respond to your previous baseless rants against me, I neither have the time nor the inclination to do so. Therefore I stop.

Shadows

I live in NYC. Have been since 1998. Was in WTC on 9/10 a day before on the 77th floor of Tower I. My office was doing the interior design for Lehman Brothers then. Would have been there on 9/11 too if we didnt have a weekly Tuesday morning staff meeting.

Therefore I know what I am talking about. You ask if I read newspapers? Dude I can bet you that I read more newspapers in a day than most people in a week.

At the same time, you put three links. None of these links say anything about

“….some Sikhs and Hindus were killed in NYC.”

You are again and again resorting to hearsay and rumours. Show me one link that is a news source and conclusively proves your statement.

If you can, then i will be the first one to retract my statements. And if you cannot, then I think you should stop pouting baseless hearsay opinions.

The above three links just prove what I suspected about you. You did a google search and came up with these but didnt take the time to read through them completely.

Hate crimes did happen. Racial profiling did happen. Thats nothing new. I was a victim of the same on 9/12 here in Brooklyn. However no one died as you claim in NYC.

The only two deaths i know of happened in Arizona or Texas, and only one of them was a direct result of the 9/11 attack and the aftermath in the days to follow.

Its your choice.

As for personal attacks, if you want to view them that way, then so be it.

Dude I can bet you that I read more newspapers in a day than most people in a week.

Ohh.. so now this has reduced to a brag fest.. well well.. ok. bhai, tum mahaan.. jai ho arzan maharaj kee.
Sorry, couldnt resist it. You sure have a skill at trolling, I bet.

On the sepia link, scroll down, somebody has pasted a big article as a comment.

Now, now what stuff are you made of, maharaj. 2 links mention about attacks on sikhs, and one on hindus. What do you want… both sikhs and hindus mentioned in a single sentence.!??!!
Ohhh come on, dont be so naive. Dont you think we are also targets of racism after 911. Read what happened to Sakshi. She was mistaken to be a muslim.
Now, you seem to be deliberately wanting to close your eyes to whats happening around you, even after reading more papers in a day than others in a week, to prove your secularism and gandhigiri. Continue with your delusions, you dont need any dope.

By the way, if you read the papers, get on to the times of india front page today. It mentions why gandhi was considered for peace prize, but not given one. I admire those nobel committee guys, atleast they have the guts to say things as they are.

>>> However no one died as you claim in NYC.

How dense.. what stuff are you made of.. really , arazn maharaj.
I was not talking about NYC specifically…… There were people killed in other states too. Which language should I post in. Or copy paste this thing and use google translator to a language that you are better at.

There were people killed. Do you really read the papers, or use them to wrap fries.

I did not read your post completely (same old stuff ), my eyes just fell on that line, and I made this second post.
Hey, why dont you make the effort of finding out proof for a change, instead of asking me to do so again and again.. now you read papers dont you, it wont be so difficult for you.

This sure is entertaining.. havent met trolls for quite a while.

Shadows

Do you even know the meaning of troll ?? Or as is the case with you, you are just using the word because you “read” it somewhere.

Hindus and Sikhs attacked. Yes, no doubt about it. And have said so before.

Hindus and Sikhs killed: NO. Except the one case (or two) NO deaths because of racial attacks after 9/11.

The two Tribune India links you posted are frankly opinions of people voiced to the newspaper. Opinions are not news. I thought you would have known the difference.

>>>> Do you even know the meaning of troll ?? Or as is the case with you, you are just using the word because you “read” it somewhere.

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“Read” it somewhere?? You learn by reading or hearing. How else do you learn new words?? Ya fir tum sab seekh kar paida hue the.. kyon?? Maybe you knew the entire Encyclopedia brittania by heart when you were born.

Troll - giant creatures that resemble man but much more uglier, popular in scandinavian folk tales. Basically the bad guys in the tales.
Other meaning - someone who posts to start a flame war. The troll isnt interested in the discussion, but to provoke people into abusing. The analogy comes from the world “trawler”, that sets out nets and lines to catch fish (the fish here being people who respond to the troll-bait) (Lookup troll-bait yourself)
Soon, the word came to mean both on the internet.

And no, I aint googling for it. This comes from spending years on technical and computing forums and newsgroups, discussing technologies. Not unlike you, who needs to be told everything.

By the way, big difference - Attacked and killed. Ok, in some cases they ended up injured, in some extreme cases they died. Big difference. .. haah.. the matter in hand is not how many died, but such attacks happened, because they were mistaken to be muslims.

Also, Just that the tribune links are opinions of people does not make the facts are not facts. Or you mean that the opinions of those people who wrote to The tribune are false. Those people are fools, is it??

I give up. Such superiority complex…. bhai aisa kaunsa teer maara hai tumne. Sach bata yaar, what are you made of..

>>>> Do you even know the meaning of troll ?? Or as is the case with you, you are just using the word because you “read” it somewhere.

=============

LOLzz.. I am still laughing at that.. hey come on,, you can do better than that. Such childish comments. hahaha..
Try some death/doom/black metal too with your dope, it will give better results.
Maybe you are good with the papers, (LOLzz…) but you sure are a n00b on the interent. This word is pretty common in forums and newsgroups. As is n00b. Look up n00b too on google.

Encyclopedia brittania

The only Brittania I know are the sliced bread that one gets in Bombay (or used to) and the HMS Brittania, the Royal Yacht.

Oh wait, you are talking of Encyclopedia Britannica…..Isn’t that a big faux pax for someone who claims to be on technical forums and internet for so long.

As for me being a n00b……ur blog shows that you started blogging just this year. I’ve been at it since April 2004. As for the internet….to give you an indicator….how many people do you know who have a hotmail and yahoo account email ID with just their first name ?? That should give you an indicator.

As much as i try to detest responding back to you, I cannot help myself. Probably I should self discipline myself.

And you say

but you sure are a n00b on the interent. This word is pretty common in forums and newsgroups. As is n00b. Look up n00b too on google.

Well….my response to that is…and sorry sakshi for using offending (to some)lingo….

when it comes to the internet….while you were sucking…i was fuckin’. Hope you get the gist !!

Last comment. Am outa here.

ur blog shows that you started blogging just this year. I’ve been at it since April 2004.

Well i had an older blog (which lasted just 3 months actually) which I deleted.. you just dont have the brains, dont ya..
Blogging is something i picked up much later. Now, how long one blogs is a measure of his/her technical skills.. What a nutcase… sahi mein yaar, what do you eat to become so dumb and correlate irrelevant stuff.

Yeah, I missed the “c” . You see, this textbox does not have a spell check. Such a jerk, now instead of coming to the point, you are retorting on my spelling skills (or the lack of it). Why do you speak about things when you dont know them? and end up demonstrating a hint of your stupidity.

>>ur blog shows that you started blogging just this year. I’ve been at it since April 2004.

haha.. you read more papers than me, you blog more than me.. hahahaha… next, dont start comparing ..ahem.. c**ks or how long you have been at “it”. Bola na yaar, tu mahaan hai, mein kuch bhi nahi hoon. Arzan maharaj kee jai ho.. Lekin yeh to bata, aisa kaunsa teer maara hai tune, jo itna ud raha hai. utar jaa, bhai, nahi to bura girega.

yeah, get outta here. good for you. And more importantly, me.

Sakshi, sorry about the slugfest, but please block this thread, if you can. Cant argue much with someone who is more keen to find out spelling mistakes and is more keen on proving his language skills better than actually talking about the topic on hand.

Hello,
I found this thread from googling “las vegas” and “racism” and would like to add one thought — I’m a 50-year old white American woman, so you can put my comments in context.

I’m so sorry for the taxi-driver’s comments, Sakshi, and hope you not be scarred by that deplorable incident. While I agree with several of the comments here, disagree with some, and don’t really understand quite a few others, there is one main point I would like to add:

In general, Americans are terribly ignorant of other countries and customs. Much of what I’ve read above can be traced to ignorance first, and second to malice. The taxi driver, sadly, would probably never have heard of the Hindi religion, much less be able to distinguish it from Islam. He may not know any Muslims … or even many people outside of his own narrow Christian denomination. He is probably not practicing any religion at all — most Americans don’t, sadly.

However, there is such a thing as carrying ignorance too far — and too many Americans are sticking their heads in the sand to avoid learning about other countries and cultures. I’m not defending that, at all — just hoping to explain it a bit.

Those Americans who are trying to learn, often do it in a clumsy manner — such as the above story about asking the Tamil speaker what language they are speaking. I myself have wanted to do this on several occasions, when I couldn’t place a language I heard and was curious about it. The difference is that, of course, I did not do so because it would be rude. If it’s possible, please see if the person asking, “Where are you from?” is rudely, clumsily, but innocently, trying to broaden their own boundaries … in our rapidly mixing world.

Thank you so much if you’ve read this far. I very much enjoyed this opportunity to share my thoughts.

Oops - obviously above I meant “the Hindu religion” - not Hindi, which I know is a language. That’s a great example of the American clumsiness/ignorance I was describing above, though. So very sorry!

And, thank you once again for this opportunity to post.

I am incredibly sorry that happened to you. I live in Las Vegas and came upon this entry doing research for a project on the history and existence of racism in las vegas for a college humanities class. I have definitely had some racist encounters since I began living here, some trivial and others downright brutal. Most people I have met here are generally very courteous, but of course there are assholes as well. I am truly sorry that you had to run into one of them.