Live-in relationship Vs. Marriage

In my experience I have found that after getting married I become emotionally a more stable person. Now I am better at financial managment. I have become more responsible and I feel most of the time happy and have discovered the sense of humour that lied dormant inside me before my marriage. I am all for the marriage than ‘living-in’.

This article is completely bogus! It’s just defending the traditionalist agenda using pseudo-statistics. What’s next: married men less likely to become terrorists that cohabitating ones?

The problem here is that the fundamental basis of this article seems to be that it assumes that people who are sharing a live-in relationship have the same goals and aspirations they might expect from a married relationship. But this might not be the case. Live-in relationships have more similarities with living with say a roommate than a spouse. In case of a roommate relationship, the common goal is sharing of rent, in case of living together, it’s sharing sex. It’s a case of comparing apples and oranges. In fact, two people living together, might, in the future, decide to take their relationship to the next level and get married.

1. I agree with gawker. Who said they both look for the same things?

   2. Even if you are comparing only cases where the aspirations are similar, I do not think I need a contract (religious or legal) for me to be committed to someone. If I need to be married for me to feel secure in a relationship, then its time to end the relationship.

   3. As for kids being more happier in a marriage, there are enough studies out there to prove that kids turn out to be really bad when raised by homosexual parents. Does that mean homosexual couples are bad parents? No. It is a reflection not of the parents but of the way society treats them.

   4. The only reason to get married, imo, is the convenience factor - tax benefits, visitation rights etc. The current setup is so skewed towards married couples that if you are not married you end up having to run after bureaucracy to get anything done. Remember the case of the Dutch diplomat’s partner who wasn’t allowed to come into some Middle East country because they weren’t married? Did it matter that they had raised three kids together? No. No marriage certificate? Go to hell.

   And wait, how can I forget the most important reason to get married? Parents. Make parents happy.

You have summarized it beautifully! Cohabitation, in my opinion, is based on convenience - “I’ll stick around as long as the realtionship meets my needs” - while marriage is based on love and commitment. There is likely to be more effort into getting along well and adjusting to each other’s needs in a marriage than in cohabitation. I am not saying people who are cohabiting don’t love each other. They most definitely do(or maybe they think they do), thats why they are together. But if the relationship starts failing, they are more likely to leave to find the “right partner” as they have nothing invested in it.

I would choose marriage over cohabitation any time. But I do undrerstand that not everyone is same and not everyone wants the same things out of a relationship. So while marriage is right for me, cohabitation might be right for someone else. We always tend to judge things from our perspective - but IMHO they are not always black or white. Their are some grey areas too….

I think live-in relationships are a good first step towards a successful marriage.

With the divorce rate that is going on today, it is better that couples live together and iron out the kinks and make sure they want to lead their whole lives together. It is a check mechanism.

In a relationship, each one knows the others good points….thats why the fall in love.

Living in allows them to know the irritants and the idiosyncracies of each other, and then allows them to make a decision as to whether the irritants are something that can be overlooked for the rest of their combined lives or not.

I agree with raven that this is a very traditionalist and conservative view.

Raven : I went thru many articles published..online and MOST of them suggest same outcomes as mentioned in the article on my post. So i doubt that the article is bogus and supporting traditionalist agenda.

Gawker : I agree the basis of the article is assuming cohabitants couples share similar goals to married couples. BUT to say that live-in relationship is just limited to ‘SEX’…well i dont completely agree to it. When you are living with a person for a long time…physically and in some way mentally sharing yourself with them day in and day out…they are bound to more between then two then just plain SEX.

Veena : I consider marriage to be much more then just legal formalities. Its the just the matter of the way you look at it.

Ps…what wrong with making your parents ‘Happy’… :).

Arzan : I know it sound good, when you say that its better to cohabit before marriage..to know the pros and cons in the relationship…but that means you got to draw the line some where, which would be hard to do where you are living day in and out with eachother. I mean..what if the women becomes pregnant during the cohabiting period..and but the guy realises that he doesnt like a few things in his partner..and he wants to break-up. So where does this leave the women ??

Another interesting stats i noticed was the couples who cohabit before marriage are more likely to end up in a divorce…than the couples who didnot live together before marriage.

Well with all said and heard..i feel it basically depends on the two individuals in a relationship…People can make things work if they want to..be it in Marriage or Live-In situations.

re: the car analogy — it’s not that one person is the poor dumped-upon car and one is the powerful arrogant driver, it’s that the car represents the relationship and both people are trying to see how it works. They’re both presumably equally invested in finding out what happens.

The more I read your post the more I tend to disagree with it.

You base your whole arguement on a 1991 study. That is 14 yers ago. If the study took a year or two that makes the actual results even older.

The whole world has changed since the 80’s.

At best your post can be a hypothesis, nothing more than that.

In your comments you say that what if a woman gets pregnant in cohabitation and then the relationship breaks up.

The same happens in marriages too. What about that ??

I think that its not fair to criticize something because of all the possible negatives. There will be negatives in everything. What if the marriage does not work ?? In that case dont marry !! why waste all the time and money and effort.

Especially in India, many people go thru lives tied to a loveless marriage they cant get out of. Societal pressure is so immense that it seems to be the impossible thing to do.

I personally think that if two individuals are mature and cohabitate, thats better than blindly marrying and then finding out that things dont work.

The operating words are maturity and understanding.

I wonder how many of the commenters are talking with experience of both…marriage and cohabitation.

For me i talk with experience of the latter and very soon the former too.

Arzan : Well, firstly i dont know where you get the impression that i am voteing for ‘marriage’ and consider ‘live-in ’situations as a offence. All i am doing putting aruguements of OTHERS who think that way.

Personally, yes..i choose Marriage over cohabitaion…but as mentioned in my earlier comment…’Its Each to Its Own’…Failure can happen in any relationship whether it is Marriage, Live-In situations or Marriage between couples who have cohabited earlier.

As for the article that i have mentioned in the post, though it is 14 years old…it still stands true in many aspects…and this i am saying after reading a few Recent articles. The reason choose to refer to this particular article because its states its reason in simple words and with research backings.

As for your comment….saying that the women gets preganant and then her marriage spilts…then what ? Well then i would ask you to refer to your comment in my post on Alimony..where you choose to be the Devil’s advocate. If the women gets pregnant in Marriage..then she has the legal support and in many cases family support to help her and the child to get thru life. Whereas in ‘Cohabitation’, there are no financial bindings…the man can actually just walk away…without any liability. Even in 2005…there are no proper laws regarding Cohabitation.

As for your views on ‘Love-less marriages’…i agree that there are loads of societal pressure..BUT its all changing now, these days people are no longer sticking in Love-Less marriages…and there are stats that prove so..thats why Divorce rates are on a high as compared to earlier years. And tell me is it better then being in a relationship which is purely on based on ‘Sexual needs’…BUT no emotional attachments…for me its as bad as a ‘Love-less’ marriage.

And i dont know..what impression you have of ‘Arranged Marriage’…cause those days are gone when people use to blindly marry on their parent’s orders…now a days a lot more time..thought and in a way research is put into ‘arranged marriages’. Couples who have had ‘Love marriage’…also divorce….inspite of knowing each other before way before marriage.

I agree, The operating words are maturity and understanding. People who are matured and marry…can also make their relationship work..without the need of Cohabitating before hand.

Well as for exprience…i dont have in either of the too. But i feel there are certain issues in life…that you dont need exprience in, to base your judgement.

To end it, All i will say is that not all are LUCKY as you are and ‘Good Luck’ to you with the latter.

i am in an arranged marriage of 12 years with 2 kids. yes we still do have our adventure of getting to know each other as we r dynamically changing. plus i have many friends- american, jewish, christian, indian, afro-americans etc. in live-in relationships and all of them come to me for advice (after seeing our marriage). they want to get married and settle down but fear to commit. they all feel unanimously that arranged marriages are a lot easier on the emotional wellbeing of individuals who wish to stay in a monogamous relationship. lower stresslevels and breakdowns & improved efficiency at the workplace as there is no “guessing”. yes, u can say that ours was a “loveless” marriage. but after 12 years, I can say that ours is very much a love marriage & we r still hot over the stove and in bed;) living in is for shit-scared people who let their egos run their lives rather than love.

IMO Co-habitation is like a test drive. the urge to compromise to make a relationship work is much higher in a marriage. the same may not be the case in co-habitation.

My two cents.

The real issue is commitment. A live-in relationship or a marriage has to have the same level of commitment if they are to be sucessful. In cases of love marriage the commitment is already there and in arranged marriage the commitment enforced. But you cannot simply rule out that there’s no commitment in live in relationships. Maybe there’s love and care. Or maybe its sex. Even if its just for sharing the rent, a commitment is there.

As long the commitment is shared and followed upon and met, I think live-in relationships can provide what a marriage does today. The rest is just mindset.

I’m all for co-habitation. Marriage, might be a step from that.

there are many good reasons to choose it. And its a personal choice.

Now, getting to your points against co-habitation:

a) the number of co-habiting people is much lesser than the married folks, so statistics are skewed.

b) people who co-habit invest too - in each other, in the relationship, with time, money etc.,

c) the test drive analogy is very, very faulty. Cos its two people taking the relationship for a test drive. Not the other person for one.

d) living-in is not the same for everyone, some might take marriage as a logial step frm there. Some might just use it as time-pass, say.

e) your argument of it being very easy to get out of a live-in. Divorces are pretty easy. as are separations.

THANK YOU EVERYONE !!!!!!!!!
Actually i was searching Google for Info on issue of “Live-in” since many days…
but it hardly fetched me quality stuff But wen i landed on this Blog…
My search has ended i got soooo much of info, Different angles, views…
My quest has ended
thank you ” http://sakshijuneja.com/blog/?p=111”
n thank you all
(PS: now first i need 2 fix my Opinion… am still finding it difficult which is better over other)
-nik

arre but think it this way…
what do you think the ultimate aim of life is??
being happy na..
money love n everything is just for happiness.
once commited to someone you gotta be with him/her for rest of your life,no matter how the person changes, coz every person change with time.
one loves for happiness, internal satisfaction n if this sole purpose is only not fulfilled y to stay in relationship??
live in relationship is better for me.

but 1 thing i agree…gud girls want commitment
its their psychology and i respect it.
i just said my views.

why do you assume people who live together aren’t committed? that’s your assumption isn’t it and isn’t necessarily the same for everyone. in a traditional society where marriage is the norm that may be the case perhaps, but your point of view is rather presumptuous: it all depends on expectations of theindividuals concerned. i don’t think you can make the generalizations you are doing.

also - marriage can end in divorce - any relationship can end - yes marriage is harder to dissolve due to the legal nature of the contract - but what does that mean? does it signify that if people are in a marriage that is still exists they are necessarily happy? Hardly. At the end of the day marriage is nothing but a social institution. there isn’t anything inherent in it apart from what people themselves invest in it.

also some of those statistics are well dodgy. 1991 findings? which study was that?

p.s. lots of married people have separate bank accounts..

there are some very funny ideas expressed here. i daresay its a function of a conservative society where ‘living in’ (as its rather amusingly referred to) appears to be considered somewhat ‘risque’ ..i mean..who was it that said sth about living in is about sex only? i mean hello has this person never heard of one-night stands or affairs? there are many societies where if you have a live-in partner, that’s considered a pretty-high level of demonstration of commitment. its all relative isn’t it?>

definitely a very conservative view.

p.s. where on earth did you get these statistics? Who were the authors? Quoting statistics without allowing readers to access it themselves is a bit dodgy eh?

well well well im a 19yrs old and sometime back i asked my mom bout her take on li-in relations she said beta there is some difference between dog- bitch and man- woman relation.i somehow dont know how people manage too enter something to which they dont want to be commited. it is as if saying baby i just want to f*you as long as i wish to but no emotional quotient, strange you want satisfaction, want to fulfill ur needs but no responsibility, no accountability.

I am 25 in age male.Working in an MNC having handsome sallary, interested in having live-in relationship. So please if any body is interested contact me on the above mentioned email-id. I don’t have any personal reservations. Actually i want to know the pros and cons of li-in relation, So gals please come forward with yr good and supportive responses. I am waiting…………………………………………………………………………

Hi gals, I am smart male working in a software company having healthy salary, want to have li-in relationship with any of u. We will have a contract of six month, then it will depend upon the gal if she want to continue or not. I am open to all, no condition applied. If by any chance we both fall in love i am open to marrage also. so yar pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee reply …………………………………………………………..

i am very frustated living alone, i want to live with any of you………………………………
So please come forward, we will have a memorable time…………………….

Regarding marriage vs. Live in relationshp , though I have no right to say any thing wrong or right , but it reminds me the life of a Human and animal .

Who need the marriage bond , a Men or Women ?

Any relationship to build you need a lot of trust ,sacrifice , but to break the same required only two seconds , this is my understanding and any break up of relatioship can not be termed as criminal activity .

May be I am wrong , but I like to be a animal , but my morility does not permit it , may be I am in 16th century mind set , let me try to come in 21st century mind set , it will take some time , but definetely try my best to accept the 21st century mind set .

Two things - for those who want a background on the information originally posted here, check out the article that most of this info seems to have been taken from:

http://marriageandfamilies.byu.edu/issues/2001/January/cohabitation.aspx

Complete with a reference list at the bottom for those who are complaining

Second - isn’t a blog all about your own thoughts and opinions? why bother recreating most of something already available - why not post just your own thoughts, and provide a link to the rest for those who are interested in the background/details/statistics to check out?
Not to criticise you in any way, just thought it a little odd.

thanks Sariel for that. this amused me no end a while back and ive just had a look at the link you’ve posted.

so..the article says..

“First, people willing to live together are more unconventional than others and tend to be less committed to marriage as an institution.”

ah ha! as i had thought - this whole argument is highly dependent on your social context. so whilst it may be unconventional in Indian society, or conservative midwesterners, it ain’t at all the case, in e.g. London, where living together is considered a BIG commitment.

its all relative innit

“Coalition for Marriage, Family and Couples Education; Institute for American Values; Religion, Culture, and Family Project, University of Chicago Divinity School, The Marriage Movement: A Statement of Principles (New York: Institute for American Values, 2000). Available online at http://www.marriagemovement.org“

there you go! what can you expect from the ‘institute of american values..’ i had a feeling there would be some ’skew’ in the stats - i bet this lot aren’t exactly declaring their normative positions as a potential ‘methodological bias’..

All these big words and opinions…..
For once, I can’t (or won’t) be vocal.

I can’t wait to get married…….

Hi Sakshi,

yes you’re absolutely right when you focus on the legalities of the issue. Basically that’s spot on - marriage is a legal contract at the end of the day - that’s whats the difference between a living in relationship and marriage. not things like not having joint bank accounts etc. most people here who live together have a shared mortgage ( very binding!) and shared bank accounts. BUT - yes, if you’re married there are many legal implications. nowadays, you have the civil partnerships thingy here which aims to provide couples who’re not married with the same privileges.

some people say well what’s the difference? well exactly - but to many people marriage is about religion and they’re not in favour of that, but do want the stability that is legally provisioned within marriage.

also others find they are perfectly happy living without these legal sanctions whilst they are in their own country - but when they have to travel out of their country - boom! then things change - if you’re not married, you aren’t recognized as being a ‘unit’ , and that can have big implications for example..a friend of mine - english guy - who’s lived with his gf for 10 years - they have a child, shared home - mortgage- bank accounts all the rest of it - without needing to be married - and they refused to get married as they didn’t want to ‘conform’. and they felt they didn’t need to. so it was all fine until earlier this year he had to move to the States. bang - they had to get married! of course otherwise they wouldn’t have let her join him and their daughter. ..

my point in all this was simply we should always think hard about all of our social institutions. marriage is simply that - a well-recognized social institution that offers legal protection. there are often people out there who ‘moralize’ - ( im not saying you you’ve done a good job with opening up the ‘debate’! ) without really thinking about what it is they’re moralizing about.

i’m hoping to get married myself soon ! nothing wrong with being married - don’t anyone get me wrong, im not one of these people who feel i musn’t get married to make a statement. and im pretty sure id never get away with living with my man in dhaka ( where my parents live!) without being married. would it be worth the jhamela ? - probably not!! as someone said way back up there - making parents happy is very important!

Hi ,
here is my nickel to a wonderful debate .

This is just my opinion over certain points.
First take relativeness . I seriously doubt just because there is a word ‘relative’
you can apply it everywhere. I mean PI is irrelevant to the location on earth .
And so is the logic. Some one back said L-I is a big deal and it is sign of more
commitment than marriage. If so obviously any couple which has crossed level of
trust and commitment of L-I they have automatically crossed that of necessary for marriage. That means they can get married without hesitation even though it could be for slightest benefit like tax saving or something trifle as that . BUT if they are still
hesitating then ‘bring forth me the one who said L-I is more serious than marriage .’

Now legality , Morality and culture . All of them ( SHOULD ) stand for Goodness of
greater number of people. Morality is what a group of people believe is good for most of them or will be beneficial when followed by most of them. Culture is is long standing morality of that community. For example it is moral to serve ‘athithi’ . Long standing morality of a group becomes culture of that people. But in Mumbai where a shoddily dressed unknown athithi is most of the times nuisance hence will be promptly shooed off . And you will not call it immoral yourself. So you see the culture has changed itself. So all I am saying is Good morality becomes culture and unviable morality are shredded in time like pebble in river .

Chinkara worshipper bishnoi have their own laws which conserves their Nature and culture . Their law ( http://web.mid-day.com/news/city/2006/april/134977.htm )was telling them to kill the killer of Chinkaara was reflection of their culture …
So now if we can just conclude that most of the LAWS ( I AM NOT SAYING ALL )
are production of societies culture which is in place to help the avarage Joe ( considering both gender .. ) is more probable to be FOR GOOD . Our legal system has bias towards Marriage and which I think is ALSO (NOT necessarily only upon )
justified on time tested manner . So I am all for Marriage than L-I .
Said all that long I do not want to leave any end loose. With time necessities changes. So should change the culture and Hence law. But Just coz time has elapsed one should not change the culture telling it is a old one . Why do we want to paint Marriage as either Black or white ? Why can not we evolve marriage to a better level ? Something is not good doesn’t mean something opposite to it will work fine.
It is just that we should make it better by up gradation … So why not propel this debate from marriage or L-I to what are the qualities of L-I that should be imparted into marriage ? One such suggestion is ease to end the relation in case of valid reason ( not just on whim ) …

( flame mails and critics are most welcome on peeep_boy@yahoo.com )

peep boy has an interesting point there - “It is just that we should make it better by up gradation … So why not propel this debate from marriage or L-I to what are the qualities of L-I that should be imparted into marriage ? One such suggestion is ease to end the relation in case of valid reason ( not just on whim)”

Forget live-in and all that, people should not have sex before marriage. As Sakshi points out, what if the girl gets pregnant? Then?

I think it’s time we had a “stay virgin till marriage” campaign in the blog world. The risks of pre-marital sex are just too high.

This is quite interesting as I lived with my now husband for 6 months before we got married (we have been married now for 8 months)
The difference between living together and marriage…marriage is more responsible and grown up. Living together was alot of fun!! We didn’t have to worry about much, could go clubbing etc all night (well, we had to wake up in the morning to go to work of course), hang out with friends more. Now I feel like I am either working, travelling for work, buying presents at business trips for my parents and his. Going out with friends has decreased alot!!

The comments about what if the girl gets pregnant? You wouldn’t live with someone who you weren’t serious about. Living together, sharing that space with someone is a big committment. Also, safe sex?? Haven’t you heard of it? The guys I dated, I knew if I became pg with them, they would take responsibility. If not, I wouldn’t have slept with them.

Am I Indian? Yes, Sindhi actually.

If you want a pure, never been out of India type marriage partner, that is fine (my mom is this type). But if you want someone who is exciting, takes a lot of time to love you for you, gives you the freedom to be yourself, grow up!

I don’t know why my previous message was deleted so I will try again.

I lived together with my now husband for about 6 months before he proposed to me.
Living together and marriage (we have been married now for 8 months) is really different. Marriage is more responsible and grown up. Living together was a lot of fun. We went out drinking a lot, didn’t have to worry about things, stayed up talking all night. Now, we both have quite serious jobs which takes us around the world. I feel as though all my time now is spent doing housework, working, travelling, and buying presents for my parents/in laws on business trips.

Believe it or not, my husband helps out more now that he did when he was my boyfriend. He helps cooking, a little in cleaning, but most of all taking out the trash.

The comments about the girl getting pregnant. Get real. One wouldn’t live with someone they weren’t serious about. It isn’t like being roomates. sharing your space with another person is a big committment.
Also, safe sex? Haven’t you heard of it?
Even if you don’t live together, if you don’t practice it, the girl can get pregnant.

If you chose to have sex, be responsible with someone who is responsible. This means when things don’t work out, take responsibility. Guys wanting to just have fun? Buy a mag or rent a movie. I am sure you can take responsibility of your hand.

Am I Indian? yes, Sindhi actually.

If you want this traditional, never been out of Indian type, that is fine. If you want someone who lets you be you and loves you for it, grow up! The world is changing and you may miss out on some great experiences being stuck to whatever you can’t let go.

Whoa, this thread is still active..

@Himanshu, you are right. The proponents of living in can keep repeating the advantages of living in, they wont understand, but the advantages of the traditional way are much higher.

@sos, I must say you are lucky. Touch wood and thank the Gods. What if your now husband had refused to marry you ? Would you have told a new boyfriend - “Hey, before I met you, I was living with this guy, etc (and other unmentionable stuff here)”

As per what you say, he is a nice guy, but what if he wasnt? How can anyone ever know if the guy just wants to have a good time and scoot, or he is serious. Well, I can show myself to be serious to a gal, and she would never know. I wouldnt do that because I know what that makes me.

>> Am I Indian? yes, Sindhi actually.

I just noticed that.. I am an Indian too, and a Sindhi too. And I am going the traditional arranged marriage way (my parents are still bride hunting, and I am trying to extend my freedom as long as possible). No history of living in…. am so ugly that no gal in her right mind would think of living in with me . Though I did visit friends’ flats and stayed till late. But nobody trusted me enough to let me stay for the night, even if it is raining heavily outside. Ok, quarantine me. Me in one room, you gals in another. But no luck. Tried fair and lovely cream, it doesnt work on me (how did it work on my other guy friends) (yeah, many guys use such things).

Anyway, I did get one chance to live-in (wondering if my friend had forgotten to wear her lenses, or drunk, or both), while in college, but did not go ahead. I was uncomfortable with the idea.

I did not want all that
complications,
expectations,
headaches,
wagging tongues,
prying,
limited beer binges,
no football or cricket,
no abusing the pakis, umpires or referees (or idiots you come across),
an overdose of pinks and reds,
overdose of girlish talk,
overdose of senti-mushy-stuff,
overdose of progressiveness and liberalism,
forced appreciation of best selling literature(like rushdie which i think is trash),
your guy friends not staying over for the beer and the late night match (cos she doesnt like them much),
no shirts or jeans lying around,
no smoker friends welcome,
and most of all, not being able to be myself.

I hope all this is enough to deter guys from heading into this craziness. Add more here if you like. I might add it to my blog as a separate post altogether (with credits).

>> Would you have told a new boyfriend - “Hey, before I met you, I was living with this guy, etc (and other unmentionable stuff here)”

Was just reading it again, in case I posted something wrong. What I mean is that… if you tell him, the new boyfriend might not be interested, and if you dont, it is called cheating, and he would be absolutely correct in breaking off the relation (dont mention hindi movies, crying and singing will not work. they are there to make money, to tell you a story, a fantasy, its imagination).

If it works, fine, otherwise, live-in relations can turn out to be ugly.

hi. i just got engaged and found this site because i was trying to prove my fiance wrong that the statistics that people who live together before getting married are more likely to get a divorce. while that doesn’t make any sense to me i think that marriage is a wonderful step in a relationship and it definitly changes tthings…for the better in my opinion. throughout the many many years we have lived together, we have grown to be each others best friend. but, i never wanted to get married because i thought he would change, not put any effort in our relationship because he essentially owned me, and i didn’t see the point in having a ceremony. however, obviously, my point of view has changed. before i always viewed the relationshp as this temporary thing, and i was always dealing with the stress of when the appropriate time to end it since we’d been together so long. i was always so scared of being proposed to. but once it happened i was giddy. i really didn’t understand why..since i was so sure i didn’t need to get married. but, what i realized was it was so wonderful to feel that i was so loved so much that someone wanted to devote their entire life to me. and i realized i wanted to devote my life to him. and in my opinion to perform such serious commitment and act of love in front of your friends and family is a wonderful feeling and a wonderful way to start a new chapter in your life. believe me i’m sitting on this engagement for a small period of time to ensure i’m not just on cloud nine from the act of his proposal. but i really look forward to the satisfaction official commitment brings.

Hey guys , come on more ideas..

I will put up this list of “why no live-in” on my blog.

I just hit across another thing. The legal hassle. A live-in relation has no legal validity. So the kids born of a live-in have lose any claim on any insurance or property belonging to the father. (I am not sure, correct me if I am wrong here)

And the “wife” is .. well.. to put it bluntly,.. as good as a mistress. And the husband is as good as an untrustworthy philanderer.

I, as a guy, would not trust any other guy living in. If a guy is scared of committing to a girl he loves, how can I trust him as a friend or have business deals with ??

Honestly, I couldn’t live with someone I didn’t want to marry. If things didn’t work out, I don’t think it would have made a difference with the next person I dated. Because I don’t date people who are hung up on the past.

I am who I am because of the people I have met. Friends in uni, after uni, the guys I dated, my friends’ kids who have taught me they don’t care about my past as long as I am nice and fun with them now. It is funny that kids accept you unconditionally but adults don’t.

Shadow, don’t take this the wrong way, but I am lucky to have met my husband, not that he married me. Marriage is just a piece of paper with a lot of responsibilities. Of course, I enjoy being married to “him”.

Also the if he refused to marry me. Lol!! That to me is so old fashioned. I, actually, didn’t want to
get married when we started dating. I didn’t believe in marriage (it is a phase many girls have). But he did. In fact, the ceremony, the wedding parties, he wanted them more than me. I was content in having a really simple wedding (I was 31, so I didn’t really see the point). But now, I am happy we did all the fuss and my parents do, who btw don’t know we were living together before marriage!!

>>If things didn’t work out, I don’t think it would have made a difference with the next person I dated.

Sure, it would have. If you had told him the truth. If you dont tell him the truth, it is plain simple cheating. Everything falls apart then.

For me, loyalty and faith are more important. If not then, getting into a relationship with a prostitute or a gigolo should be ok.

>>I am who I am because of the people I have met.
Yes definitely. its the same with most other people.

>> Because I don’t date people who are hung up on the past.

Too idealistic. Then the choices become limited. We want the best for ourselves but are instead making things difficult for ourselves. Also, it works both ways. So, in that case, if the new guy has a history of womanizing, you should forgive his past. Now, can you ?

I am asking you (and actually, me too!) some difficult questions, not in any derogatory sense, but for my own knowledge and perspective too. Thanks for replying sos.

But frankly, tell me, would you tell a new bf that you were living in with someone. If yes. Chances are, 70% of the guys will scoot off (incl someone like me). You cannot trust a girl (or a guy, for that matter) who has had lived in with 3 bfs (or gfs) before you to stick to you. Of course, its about probabilities. A girl with 0 affairs might be unfaithful, but the chances are lower. And among the 30% who stay, the 15% are hoping for some good time and leave. Believe me. In my 27 years, I have observed lot of these things. It becomes a morass that one keeps falling into. I believe this should work for guys too (Remember, i said it works both ways), but then there are always some stupid girls waiting to fall into traps.

>>Marriage is just a piece of paper with a lot of responsibilities.

So its just about that. Responsibilities. At that point of time , it might not matter, but later when the repurcussions start coming in, it blows over. Read Sakshi’s post too. (Sakshi, I wonder why you are called a feminist).

>>Also the if he refused to marry me. Lol!! That to me is so old fashioned.
Old fashioned…. But it happens!! And its devastating to both parties involved. Maybe at that time it doesnt matter, but basically refusal to marry at that point of time would indicate lack of trust and faith in the partner. Or just maybe .. i dont want responsibilities, as you said above.

Whoa, there are too many girls who are willing to live in. Wonder why I dont come across more (except the one I mentioned above, who had no intention of any relationship, but just to save on some rent) .. Damn.. Am I ugly.. but then as Nirvana sang in Lithium “I am so ugly, but thats ok, cos so are you, we broke our mirrors”.

And yeah, the world cup soccer starts today so.. my mind is quite off girls for some time. No meeting any female friends to update myself on the gossip.

Hey guys (and gals too), any ideas about extending that above list ??

Well, my mind has been on an overdrive on these things since last few months, when I thought the inevitable would happen, given my parents and relatives pushing. I have to walk around the fire soon (or maybe depending on perspectives, jump into the fire) . Maybe a month, maybe a year later. And arranged marriage is the only way out for me, you see, as John Abraham and Hrithik, damn even the rickshaw wala (wearing mithun hairstyle and altaf raja style sunglasses) at the chowk, look better than me. So no girl would agree to live in with me.

Read this too..

Sakshi, nice blog. Nice topic. Good to have chanced upon this stuff here.

My husband knew I lived with someone before.

He also knew someone else had proposed to me while I was a university student. Of course, I didn’t get married to that person, but he knows about my past (like I know about his) and we accept each other because of it.

“Chances are, 70% of the guys will scoot off (incl someone like me). ” I am glad. I am happy not to be married to the norm but someone who is special. I am pregnant now, and I am still working (no reason to quit yet–I love my job). But when I get home, I am really beat. I have to take a nap. For the past 2 weeks, I have made dinner once. My husband has either made something, or we have eaten out or brought home take out. Washing the dishes? Husband does it more than me. Folding the laundry–husband. I don’t live in India so I don’t have a maid, so housework falls on both of us. I think 70% of guys would not like doing more housework than his wife. I am really glad I married a minority.

I learned/saw to look beneath the surface. To have a real relationship. If you scoot off because of a girl’s past, how can she be honest with you?

Again, I am not to judge to tell women it is ok to be women. Women have been so repressed、told don’t do this or that because no one will marry you.
The funny thing is, one of my Sindhi friends, she didn’t party or anything like the rest of us, and she is the one who isn’t married. The ones who broke the rules, we are the ones who are、not just married, but with husbands who adore us (I wouldn’t say worship the ground we walk on, because that is derogatory, but I think you can get the point)

>> If you scoot off because of a girl’s past, how can she be honest with you?

But then you cannot stay if she is honest. Its a circle. Like I said earlier, the probability of a partner (gal/guy)being loyal and trustworthy decreases as the number of flings he/she has increases.

And like I said earlier, you are lucky. At the age of 27, I have seen enough broken hearts and grief by now, to be cynical about these things. A close friend of mine has slept around with his girlfriend, spent nights with her when her parents were out of town (almost living-in), and later dumps her because “parents dont agree”. The funniest part is that the girl believes him, thinks that she understands him and that she is sacrificing for love (or some crap like that).. LOLzzz.. hahaha…

And more funnier is the fact that the guy knew his parents will never agree. No caste reasons surprisingly. The parents want a more well off, and more educated gal in the family. Still the guy was in it for fun, free disc passes, shopping companionship and free ummmm….. you get it. And of course, I dont really trust that guy, though he is a close friend. I never introduce him to female friends of mine, I dont want them to fall into this (yeah, itna confidence hai mujhe uski playboy qualities mein, he has had a string of affairs).

Again, if a gal or a guy has had a number of broken affairs and flings, it says a lot about the gals/guys stability, judgement and patience (and playboyness in case of guys). Its like - How can you fall for someone like that, how did you trust him/her. How can you be sure that he/she wont leave you due to the slightest of quarrels (which are inevitable).

And how long can you keep skeletons in the closet. They tumble out sooner or later. So even if not honest, its plain simple cheating.

>>The funny thing is, one of my Sindhi friends, she didn’t party or anything like the rest of us, and she is the one who isn’t married.

Can I meet her, if she doesnt mind me being ugly Or should I start partying harder.
Jokes apart, do you really think that she not partying is the reason for her not getting married.

>> I am really glad I married a minority.

I did not mean to be rude nor I want to be, but whats the relation between your husband adoring you, etc and he being a minority ??
Are you advertizing for minorities here. his and now your religion may be better, but i m happy with my religion, i dont wanna convert. Are you indirectly saying that minorities guys are better than those from majority or Sindhis.

Best wishes to you, and your baby
Thanks for strengthening my beliefs.

him being a minority being he is not the typical guy who cares that his wife has had a boyfriend or two in the past. As the majority of guys care, I am glad my guy doesn’t.

27 is young. If I met my husband at 27, I wouldn’t have been interested. And he wouldn’t have been interested in me either. Timing places a big part in falling in love.

My friend who doesn’t party….she is into her career plus she doesn’t drink, go out clubbing, being the good Indian girl. The problem she and her mother has found, is many Indian guys aren’t looking for just a homey type. Combined with being intelligent, being able to financial support herself (she travels alot for work), the guys feel inferior.
I guess I am lucky that though I am equal to men at work (I used to travel for work before I became pregnant), I am not a very domestic person. Having faults made me likeable and easy to approach.

That is why it is sad and frustrating. Indian guys want a fun wife! They don’t want someone like their mom. However, if the girl is too fun, she may have a troublesome past. Yet having a past filled with adventures, made me settle down. My husband is very serious, didn’t have a lot of fun in his past. So, when I want to go clubbing, or do something that is fun, for him it is paradise. And when I go too far, he brings me back to reality.

>>27 is young.
Its young ??? Not in India I started earning at the age of 23. The pressure on me to get married started about 18 mnths ago. Its only now that I am open to the idea. I was too much in love with beer to even think about it.

>> him being a minority being he is not the typical guy who cares that his wife has had a boyfriend or two in the past.

hmm.. that way. Well, I suppose you havent stayed in india for long. minority in India means muslim. I thought you wanna convert me etc etc and bring the discussion to Hindu-bashing.

Live-in relnships are like test-driving used cars. (Now this is derogatory, but this was mentioned by some psychologist in an online article, which I am unable to locate now). Yeah, try out and see whether she (pun intended) is in good condition.

And it actually is quite similar. The only difference is that girls are not cars. Thats why I say , you are lucky to find your man. Mostly the persons involved in a live-in relationship end up feeling used and abused when they realize that they are not compatible.

I wonder how easy is it to break emotional attachments. If its easy to get out of it (and yeah it is easy, I have seen that), there was no attachment really, or that it was not deep. So whats the use - the relationship isnt deep enough, its fragile, it can hurt any fine day.

Now, the friend of mine whom I talked about in my previous post. Now how do you think I know the details of his relationship? Cos he tells me, or rather, brags about it. Most guys who are not serious in the relationship do. I sympathised with the girl (she is quite smart) earlier, but then I realized she is looking to get hurt, and so she herself is to blame for her agony. And another friend of mine, who sometimes gives me graphic details of what he did with his GF in some discotheque. And many others… I dont want to fill up this space.

Again, from what i have observed (ok, when I havent had beer), there are quite a few broken hurtful live-in relationships for every one successful one.

Say, I , meet a gal who has been in a live-in relationship earlier. So its not the first experience for her. Forget about hangups on the past, it remains lingering around. Forget GF, I cannot even forget my first crush !! (no it wasnt aishwarya rai or suchlike). Comparisons become inevitable. A gal will never be so deeply attached as she was in her first relationship. The memory remains. She will always be insecure, and also the guy too will be. She will always keep exit routes open, try to define the relation as she deems fit, try to dominate cos she does not want to hurt herself again. Maybe she becomes more adjusting but still keeps exit routes open. The first experience of love (and ummmm.. ) is always the best, one of the best moments of ones life. And the girl hasnt shared it with her partner, but with someone else. The “been there done that” feeling has already crept in. The guy feels the gal isnt committed enough. The gal feels, its not as good as my last relationship. And then the crash.
(and vice versa is assumed for all statements in above paragraph).

>> My friend who doesn’t party….she is into her career plus she doesn’t drink, go out clubbing, being the good Indian girl. The problem she and her mother has found, is many Indian guys aren’t looking for just a homey type.

good Indian girl?? Sounds condescending .. or somethinglikethat.

I dont think that is the reason she isnt married. Well, doesnt mean she cannot find a guy cos she doesnt drink or party. Yeah, I am not looking for a homey type either, but I am also not looking for a page-3 type party chic.

>>Combined with being intelligent, being able to financial support herself (she travels alot for work), the guys feel inferior.

I would rather be comfortable with such a girl. Yeah, she should party sometimes, but not go around living in with any guy she met last night. In fact, gals with a colourful past are the ones who would make me feel inferior.

>>Indian guys want a fun wife! They don’t want someone like their mom.

Its possible to have fun without having a string of affairs.

I don’t know what you have against girls who have lived with someone. Your comment
“Yeah, she should party sometimes, but not go around living in with any guy she met last night.” is so old fashioned and prejudiced. Maybe that’s why you aren’t married?

Just kidding, but people don’t decide to live together overnight. It isn’t a spur of a moment thing. btw, my husband and I knew each other for 6 months before we started dating. Another 6 months before we lived together. And then another 5 months before he proposed to me.

Compared to that you will meet a girl by arranged marriage. Go on a date for 4 or 5 hours. Maybe e-mail each other. But spend less than 720 hours in cyber or in person before you decide yes or no to marry her.

Compared to that, my husband and I spent at least 4000 hours in person (I calculated 12 hours a day that we were together due to work or other factors that kept us apart) before we got married.

Probably you couldn’t marry someone who has loved someone before you. You want to be a hero, the only hero in a girl’s life. Guess what? Girls who need a hero won’t be financially secure, unless mommy and daddy are helping. I think many can’t speak their mind for fear of being disliked.

And, to me, it is sad that so many Indian guys still want to repress women into that type so women can be married.

Me ?? Repressive ??? Old-fashioned ?

There are a lot of things you assumed about me, (yeah, I said I was ugly as a joke, I am pretty decent looking in real life, and I consume very limited beer), that I am repressive, prejudiced, etc. Neither do I have the time nor the inclination to refute all of them, but I will refute some of them below. I have nothing more to add to the discussion. All your points have been answered above. Please read my previous comments again, and point out if I am wrong regarding any point there. Thanks for responding. MOst of it is actually generalization, but then its all about probabilities and chances. One has greater chances of hurting himself/herself when jumping from the second floor than the first floor. There are chances that I might even fall for a hooker. Nothing is impossible. But then the chances are like,, next to nil.

BTW, its getting to be a long discussion. Dont stress yourself in this condition. Reply (if at all you wish to) at your convenience.

>> I don’t know what you have against girls who have lived with someone.

Nothing. But just my preference. Some guys like virgins. Some dont. And I do

>> Probably you couldn’t marry someone who has loved someone before you. You want to be a hero, the only hero in a girl’s life.

This is probably the only right thing you assumed about me, and this isnt fully correct though. How did you come around to the second part ?? Any of her friends and relatives can be a hero to her.
Regarding the first part, Yes I can be with someone who has loved someone before me. But the chances are less. I have stated the reasons earlier, and I have seen it happen.

Finally, I read what I had written earlier in my comments, and I find that much more logical and factual. There is too much instability and risk involved in live-in rather than in marriage. Given a choice, I would rather marry (love or arranged, m ok with both) and commit, than live-in.

>> so old fashioned and prejudiced.
How is it prejudiced, when I say that even the guy should not be doing it. And I dont decide on the basis of old-fashioned or new-fashioned or whatever?

>> so many Indian guys still want to repress women into that type so women can be married.

How again did you jump to that conclusion about me. Do you understand that you can be wild and still have your head on your shoulders ?? How am I repressive if I expect my girl to stick to me, and not go sleep around with other guys. If my GF expects me to not go sleep with other girls, she is being repressive. !! Come on, be logical and factual, even your husband would not like that. I repeat, you can still be wild and enjoy life while having your head on your shoulders. In fact, things did not work out (and no, not for the reasons that you are thinking now), but I liked a friend of mine, we were together for a while, and we did get drunk together. I was ok with her drinking and occasional smoking. And no, we did not live-in.

I am enjoying this debate. I think we are both saying the same thing but in different words.

“Do you understand that you can be wild and still have your head on your shoulders ?? ”
Don’t you understand you can live with someone and still be logical and good? not all people who live with their bf’s are, well, unmarriageable.

You will like who you will. I know you realize you are caught in a catch 22 with your views and reality. I was too until I gave up and let things go. While keeping my values in mind. Yes, I have values. I spend a lot of time with my mother and father. My husband never did Mother’s day/Father’s day stuff, until we got married. We save quite a bit money for rainy days. And we try not lie or hurt others. I try to live my life honestly without regrets.

So it bothers me when people label things I have done in the past (like living with someone) as wild, bad, immoral. Whereas I have been true to myself, not hurt others (ok, I can never tell Mom this so I won’t hurt her), and lived my life. Just my thoughts.

>> I am enjoying this debate. I think we are both saying the same thing but in different words.

Yep, just that I am a lil bit more conservative (in fact, more than my parents). And I am bit of a conservative with reasons, not just because I am supposed to be or someone told me to follow them. Some of the reasons regarding live-in have been posted by Sakshi (make perfect sense, just read it again), and some by me. Yeah, the freedom to have beer binges and heap abuses on players, umpires, referees and Bollywood actors are some of them

>> Don’t you understand you can live with someone and still be logical and good? not all people who live with their bf’s are, well, unmarriageable.

Well, you never know . The chances are not in your favour in that case. :))
Now will the gal actually tell you why the relation broke off. Of course, she will blame the guy(and vice versa). You will have every reason to think whether the gal can be trusted or not.

Again, if a gal chooses to live with a guy and then leaves, isnt it a wrong choice and judgement on her part (and vice versa). A trusted B enough to live-in with him/her and now, the car isnt in good condition, so try another one.
Intelligence is a strong criteria for me, and falling for such things like live-in reveals the persons intelligence. (Of course, not always , but the odds dont favour you). I actually have a long post to write on how game theory fits in arranged marriage scenarios and real world relationships these days. You can actually relate it mathematically. Yeah thats what the world has come to, relationships are like trying out a used car - is she (pun intended) drivable? Ohh come on, everyone wants the best, everyone wants to minimise risk, maximise happiness.

>> I know you realize you are caught in a catch 22 with your views and reality.

The first fully correct assumption about me. Finally. Yeah, but I still stick to my beliefs, and there are many others who share them, and so I am not much worried about it. But yeah, I was just looking for another perspective.

Now actually, few months ago, my mom had talk about someone for arranged marriage thing. The gal was fine, I liked her. I appreciate the parents honesty (otherwise I might never have known about it. They did not cheat). She was engaged earlier, and the engagement was broken off by her parents (surprise surprise, my parents were ok with it). The guy was a lil unsophisticated, but her parents had agreed since they liked each other. When her parents went to meet the guys parents, they were typically rural, backward, old-fashioned (yeah:). ) and repressive types. And so they broke it off. And naturally, if I cannot place my trust, I have to back off. Now, there is every chance that the gal is also not that smart enough. Else how did she fall for a rural, old-fashioned guy.

Then there is another long story which will take quite some time to type, so I let it go.

>> I was too until I gave up and let things go.
You took a risk, and it worked for you. It doesnt work for everyone, you always have to play safe. For one success story (like yours) , I see more than one failures. Why unnecessary complicate things, when they can be simple. Marriage means you have to give it time, you cannot back out so easily, like my friend did. Now the girl will tend to be sceptical and will not easily be able to give it all to make the relationship work. Any human being will keep exit routes open in such a situation.

>>So it bothers me when people label things I have done in the past (like living with someone) as wild, bad, immoral.

You know what, even I will be labelled the same, if I do the same. Ultimately, I am responsible for my actions. Yeah, these days it comes upon guys too in urban India, and there is very less “repression” that BBC/CNN/dumbTVNewsChannelHere shows you. Such things are more common in rural parts of India and lower economic strata in urban India, and the repression varies with states.

“to each its own” as this blog is called.

I think we will always have different opinions.

To me, living with someone is not a risk anymore than going away to university is.

By trying new things, travelling, learning to drive, loving someone, a person becomes intelligent. These experiences do not work out, but it is better to have “loved and lost than to have never loved at all.”

Though people may argue it is rare for people to get married after living together, others will also argue it is difficult for people to fall truly in love in arrangement marriage. I don’t know where you are, if you have ever seen “Married by America” a reality show. One may argue it didn’t work out because the people on the show weren’t Indians, but I think people are people, regardless of nationality. Maybe a risky thought, but that is me.

I do wish you a lot of luck with your arrange marriage. Hopefully you will find the girl of your dreams. I can’t really find much to add without sounding judgemental.

There is a lot of things I love about Indian culture, but there are things I don’t agree with. As we all had different experiences which make us who we are, conservative or open-minded, unless one wants to change, it is pointless. And I can’t still see what is wrong with a girl falling in love, seriously, and living with that person before marriage.

Hmm yeah. To each its own. For me living in b4 marriage is crossing the line, for you its not. And good enough for me, there arent many gals doing that in India. When in Rome, live like the Romans.

>>By trying new things, travelling, learning to drive, loving someone, a person becomes intelligent.

Agree with that. But I wonder how living in makes a person intelligent ?? I dont agree on this point. Its good to try new things, as long as it is not going to hurt someone. And living-in might.

>> These experiences do not work o